Our Life

How can the news broadcast reports of ALL passengers being dead, and then reveal the Oceanic 6? I can't wait to find out about this…

HaHa! Yeah … good point !

Here's another one…

The way Jack told the story at Kate's trial, the plane crashed on an island in the South Pacific. No one seemed surprised when he said this. Yet the "fake wreckage" was discovered in the Indian Ocean.

:o ! The judge, jury and all the other people in the courtroom work for Ben !

LMAO

I wouldn't put it past him. lol

I suppose the wreckage must be publicly exposed as a hoax.

Who was responsoble for saying that all the passengers are dead?

Im not sure I understand your question.

The people aboard the Christiane I discovered the wreckage with all the bodies on board. They reported what they found to the media.

I guess I meant who was responsible for the fake crash, and bodies etc.?
Widmore?

obviously it gets uncovered as a giant hoax, we'll c that over next cpl seasons, the oceanic 6 are worlwide celebrities, that doesnt happen to 6 survivors of a plane crash, there has to of been a MAJOR conspiracy revealed when they show up home, imagine the last season and the worldwide shell shock when/if they do get back to the island and rescue the rest of the survivors

i thought they said ben was responsible for that in the last episode? :) well, the captain claimed it was him.

According to the Captain, Ben is the one who planted the plane. I know we shouldn't trust the captain, but that note was written by Michael, who is probably working for Ben, so of course he would say that.
Plus, I called it. LOL I said once the wreckage was found that Ben is the only one who would want the search called off permanently.

So…Ben has a ton of people working for him…off the island, that is. You would need a lot of help to pull something like that off. I forget, when did the captain say it was Ben

It could still be Widmore though. Widmore wouldn't want anyone else to accidentally find the island so he set up the hoax to stop any more searching.

And I know we don't have Micheal's full story yet (what happens after he leaves the island) but Ben DID give him the correct bearings so theoretically he should have been able to make it back home. Why would Ben make the hoax and then release Micheal back to tell everyone that it really was a hoax? …

I have a feeling it was Ben … but Widmore is a strong possibility too. :)

He said something like, "imagine the power and resources it would take to stage a hoax like that … not to mention having to find 300 bodies … and that is exactly why we want Benjamin Linus!" heh…not word for word but close enough. It was indirect.

The captain said Ben was responsible during the scene where he showed Sayid and Desmond the fake black box.

I agree it's still a possibility but I disagree on one important factor. I think Widmore would looove it if someone else found the island. It's not like they'd be able to find their way back or anything, and if Widmore was able to use their disappearance as another clue to the location of the island, then great!
Plus, if they tried to talk, Widmore has the resources to deal with that….

What makes you think it was Michael who revealed the hoax? His job was to stop the freighters from reaching the island, that's all.

(EDIT)
Ben probably blackmailed him into hiding the truth about the crash. Ben clearly has resources off the island too. It would be a small job to have Walt taken out.

Oh nono, I meant it as a question. If Ben does release Micheal so he can go back home … chances are Micheal will tell people that he was on Oceanic 815. I know people say that he wouldn't tell anyone because then it may come out what he did but I don't think he's a bad person at heart … He did bad things but I still think after knowing his son was safe he would do anything in his power to help his friends.

Even if he wouldn't, I'm sure Walt would want to. So why would Ben risk this and set him free if Ben is infact responsible for the hoax?

About the Widmore thing: You may be right about Widmore wanting people to get to the island accidentally but not now that he knows the passengers of 815 and Desmond are on there … he has all the information he needs … any more people on the island would complicate things.

I really think he would want to find the island before any other rich tycoons try to find it and claim it for his own.

(EDIT)

About your edit: lol ;) … I think Micheal would feel safer once he was back home though. He would think he would have more protection from Ben. He still doesn't know how powerful Ben is off-island.

"but not now that he knows the passengers of 815 and Desmond are on there … he has all the information he needs … any more people on the island would complicate things."

But the wreckage was set up before Widmore had that information. At the time that the wreckage was found, Widmore would still be hoping someone found the damn place.

"I really think he would want to find the island before any other rich tycoons try to find it and claim it for his own."

As far as we know, no other rich tycoons even know about the island, let alone have all the connections to Hanso, Mittelwerk, and the history of the island which Widmore has. I wouldn't be too worried if I were him. The only people searching out there are the coast guard.

"He still doesn't know how powerful Ben is off-island."

Unless Ben showed him something terrifying…

"But the wreckage was set up before Widmore had that information."
Wait, how do we know this? .. :s

Your other points are just assumptions … like mine…

Well as far as we know, Widmore couldn't really know about the Survivors being on the island until Naomi got there and saw them. When Naomi landed, she said the wreckage had already been found in Sunda's Trench.

I know the rest is assumptions, but I tend to think they're more probable ;P

Think about it, we don't know of any other tycoons with connections to DHARMA, so why pretend there are? Ben *wouldn't* release Michael without some safeguard. That's the point. He would need to protect his investment in the island. Threatening Walt is just one way he could do this.

Well, it is either Ben or Charles Widmore. That is what we think. What if there was someone else behind the fake wreckage? Hmm, Widmore must not be the only other person (other than Ben) who knows about the island or who wants to find the island and wants to be the only one or the first one to find it. There has to be many, many people who know about it because of the Hanso foundation's involvement and all the people Widmore has hired.

Here is another thought…what if the military was behind the fake wreckage? What if some other big government wants the powers this island has to offer…dumm,dumm,dumm, dumm (special effects /organ sound!) ; )

Widmore could have always known that the survivors are on the island once their plane just mysteriously disappeared. He had the journal from the Black Rock not to mention Desmond's myserious disappearance … he could have put two and two and two together to figure out that the survivors were on the island. He wouldn't however confide this information to Naomi or anyone else because they would think he was crazy due to the fact that they saw that the bodies of the 815ers were found. (Which Widmore set up to stop anyone else from finding the island) … He isn't the only rich person in the world … just one of the few mentioned in the story.

Ben could still release Micheal without a safeguard if Ben wasn't responsible for the hoax. The only thing he would have to worry about is Micheal telling people about the island but Ben knows no one will ever be able to get to it so that's a moot point anyway. :S

Lol I'm not saying he's the only rich person in the world, I'm saying that he's the only rich person we know of besides Mittelwerk who would have access to DHARMA Initiative files and documents.

Ok so there are other ways he could guess that the Losties are on the island. But I still don't think this matters. You say more people would make things more complicated…so he wouldn't want anyone else to get a chance. But I would think that complication is acceptable if it finally helps me find the island. If I was Widmore, I would use every resource I had at hand, including unsuspecting coast guard crews.

Of course he would worry about Michael talking about the plane crash! Michael would tell everyone that his friends are still alive and MORE search crews would be after his precious island. If Ben really thought it was *impossible* to find the island, then he wouldn't be worried about the freighter in the first place.

[1] Widmore is the owner of the journal: Wants to find the island: complication = acceptable [Widmore does nothing to stop others from finding the island]

[2] Widmore learns of Desmond's dissappearance: complication = semi-acceptable [Widmore does nothing to stop others from finding the island (he could have faked Desmond's death too) ]

[3] Widmore learns that Oceanic 815 is missing: complication = no longer acceptable! [Widmore fakes the plane crash ... he now has pretty much all he needs]

He's closer to finding the island … he doesn't need anyone else finding it now.

Ben only has to worry about Widmore because he knows the correct bearings to reach the island … I bet it was in that journal. The only thing he needed was a rough idea of the location. Ben doesn't think anyone else other than Widmore will be able to find the island … the journal is really the only thing that would help people and Widmore has it. So Ben need not fear Mike.

What happened between 2 and 3? Why does Widmore now have pretty much all he needs? How did he get any closer to finding the island? Just because he knows a plane disappeared somewhere in the South Pacific? That doesn't help any.

Ben would still need to worry about all those search crews back around his island and accidentally finding it. He'd rather not risk that. Either way, I don't know why we're debating whether Ben would let Mike go if it's *not* a hoax…

My point was, if Ben *did* set it up, he would still be able to let Michael go if he just threatened to harm Walt. My point was that Michael leaving the island does not rule out the possibility of Ben setting up the wreckage.

-Something- happens between 2 and 3 … I don't have all the answers … lol …

"My point was that Michael leaving the island does not rule out the possibility of Ben setting up the wreckage."

- Except that Micheal doesn't know how powerful Ben is off-island so he would try to at least help his friends … tell everyone about Oceanic 815 … Ben wouldn't take that risk and let him go. At the very least he would wait until Mike did what he was told to do and then go back on his word … he isn't the most honest person in the world. But he knew he didn't set up the hoax so it was safe to let Micheal go.

LMAO ok well…. until I have reason to believe Widmore fears help in finding the island, then I'm going to believe he'll take every opportunity for assistance he can.

That's really where we differ. We follow the clues until we separate at our opinion of what Widmore would do; accept help or fear it. Neither of us can dominate that opinion at this point and depending on which you side with, the rest is all up in the air.

I still think that Ben could easily show Michael an example of his power off-island. Ben knows that Michael's love of his son overpowers the love of his friends every time (Libby and Ana learned this the hard way). Ben knows Mike would keep quiet if he feared for Walt's safety. Either that, or he knew the freighter would be a suicide mission a la Goodwin.

HaHa…Okay so lets end the first part of the debate then…We can bring it up again after you apologize for doubting me…lol jksjksjks

"Ben knows that Michael's love of his son overpowers the love of his friends every time (Libby and Ana learned this the hard way)."

Remember though, Michael did what he thought he needed to do because Ben = God on the island. Ben =! God back home. To get off the island .. Mike had to kill people. I am sure Mike would go back for his friends after reaching home … thinking Ben can't get to him or at least do anything to him now that they are out of his element … the island. lol

Now lets put that part of the debate to rest too :- ) lol.

LOL

Ok but I want to say one last thing. You may feel that Michael will not be afraid of Ben once he leaves. But Ben is more sure of himself than that. As far as Ben is concerned, Ben=God off the island too :P

He would think Mike would comply.

I think so too. :P

Wait, I need the last word.

But that's the point … if Ben WASN'T sure of himself then he wouldn't let Mike go … but he THINKS he is right so he lets Mike go … too bad he's wrong. haha.